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UK general election 2015
Topic Started: May 6 2015, 03:49 PM (1,762 Views)
Miva
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Yeah it's pretty depressing. I just can't help but think: this is how the Nazies got into power and it upsets me.

Nigel Farage (UKIP leader) didn't win his seat, he said he'd step down, hopefully he stands by it.

More graphs, becuase I like graphs.
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On one side this shows just how unfair the system is, on the other side I'm glad the cabinet isn't going to be 13% raciest.
I'd still vote of a different system if it was offered though, racists or not. It's sad that the Lib dems wont be in a position to fight for it any more. The conservatives aren't about to give us the choice.
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Edited by Miva, May 8 2015, 12:30 PM.
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Iridana
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Phoenix
The Tory majority is confirmed now :( Not looking forward to the next 5 years... :/
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Miva
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And the maps (2010 and 2015) where each constituent is represented with equal size (since conservatives do better in countryside and labour does better in cities these maps better represents population)
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Iri: yeah same *hug*
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Edited by Miva, May 8 2015, 10:08 AM.
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Iridana
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Phoenix
A part of me is cynically wondering how many of the people in Scotland who voted against independence are now regretting that decision...

Still no word on Farage resigning, wonder if he was lying about that... :p
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Miva
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You know if I was in Scotland I might have voted SNP, they had a left voice which is something Labour have been slowly losing.

Maybe after my PhD me and Diem will move to Scotland. Then if England leaves the EU: maybe Scotland will separate from the UK and rejoin the EU and we could be part of that.
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Iridana
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Phoenix
Yeah, Scotland seems to be the place to be in the UK right now, though apparently Sturgeon is insisting this doesn't mean another referendum. I would imagine she means more 'not yet'.
Farage has officially stepped down as leader of UKIP :)
Edited by Iridana, May 8 2015, 10:27 AM.
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Miva
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Yeah I think they'll hold off for now, but Cameron promised an EU referendum and I think if the vote goes towards leaving then the SNP are going to call for another Scottish referendum.

Hopefully enough people in the UK aren't stupid enough to think leaving the EU is a good idea though.
Edited by Miva, May 8 2015, 10:28 AM.
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Iridana
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Phoenix
Tbh, given how the AV vote went, an EU referendum could end up being just as biased one way. Cameron doesn't want us to leave the EU, he had to be forced into a referendum as was, so we'll see. If he had to go back on a promise, that would be the one I'd want to see him renege on.
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Nikki
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I wonder why so many people vote conservative. To me, it seems that only rich people would have a reason to do that, but rich people are a minority. So my question is: are the conservatives not that bad for social development and I am just biased against them because I come from a leftist environment? Or is it that rich people are making a good job of scaring others into voting them, even if it's against their own interests?
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Miva
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I think a big part of it is the idea that anyone could become rich, so many poorer people think 'when I'm rich I won't want to be taxed that much'. And whilst it's true that anyone can get rich the vast majorly of rich where brought up that way, it's possible to rise but not as likely as those in the right wing like to pretend.
Also rich right wing people own a lot of the media and can try to skew the public to seeing things their way. The sun for instance is a rich white paper aimed at the poor and ignorant, with the aims of keeping them that way.
Edited by Miva, May 8 2015, 12:33 PM.
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Miva
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Also worth mentioning the youngest MP since 1667. She's 20 years old:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/32642208/meet-the-snps-mhairi-black-the-youngest-mp-elected-since-1667
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Harly
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#HarlyforHarly20Harly

Worth mentioning that I find this entire conversation completely fascinating but do not know nearly enough about UK politics to leave an informed opinion. It sounds like the situation is pretty bad though, and I'm kind of expecting the same sort of thing to happen in our next election. >.< Luckily I'll be able to vote by then but one vote is not really enough to sway an entire election, but whatever. It's when people use that as a reason not to vote that cities where 80+% of the population approve of a bill don't pass it because nobody but, say, the NRA actually bother voting for it.

Also, the popularity of conservatives in America mostly seems, to me, like a result of promises of lower taxes, the same kind of people who would vote for a party like you are presenting UKIP to be (extremely racist), and people who have been overly influenced by conservative media like Fox News. At least where I live to say that is a person is a socialist is basically swearing, and constantly people casually dissing the left.
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Silva
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Fiercer than the Dark

Wow, this thread seems to have cropped up pretty quickly. Lovely to discuss the UK for a change.

Yes, it's depressing for me as well to see that the conservatives are getting the winning result again over there. I really hope the Green Party has its own SNP day, that's really what the world needs, a much greener UK. The whole world needs to turn towards being much more careful about the environment, and if that need is not reflected in politics, world events will likely only get worse on many major fronts in the long term.

Miva, you have a great point I think about how the dream of becoming rich plays a part in poor people voting conservatively. I think another part that plays a role is the influence of religion, which usually (it's a generalisation but I think for the mainstream it is true) promotes socially conservative views. Poorer people also tend towards being religious in a broad sense, perhaps due to harder times perhaps pushing people to faith as a way of coping. That connection tends to create a poor and middle class that believe people of character are socially conservative and take certain policies. I think if people were to vote pragmatically based only on the results of what they want for the world in the long term and not on single-issue troubles and ideas like national pride, abortion or gay marriage, conservative parties would be much less popular.

Unfortunately, that gives conservative parties an advantage - simply put, only people who have either a hobby or professional interest in politics will even pay attention to potential world events or long term consequences of policies. They also have an easier sell to people who are proud of their country (military people for example) because being proud implies a lack of need for change (conservatism). I'm hoping people look to the long term more, with the dagger of Damocles hanging over the world, threatening much worse economic, environmental and social chaos than we've seen in the last few decades if radical change isn't made. Winter is coming indeed.
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Miva
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Harly
May 8 2015, 12:45 PM
Also, the popularity of conservatives in America mostly seems, to me, like a result of promises of lower taxes, the same kind of people who would vote for a party like you are presenting UKIP to be (extremely racist), and people who have been overly influenced by conservative media like Fox News. At least where I live to say that is a person is a socialist is basically swearing, and constantly people casually dissing the left.
Yeah, that's a pretty good summation of the situation here too. There's a lot of scaremongering about the left, 'socialist' isn't as much of a bad word here, though still a bit, but there's constant threatening that if Labour get into government they will both raise taxes and destroy the economy. Conservatives set themselves up as the responsible party and that seems to be popular with a lot of people.

There is a strong narrative saying that being left is about being irresponsible and naive.
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Silva
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Fiercer than the Dark

Harly
May 8 2015, 12:45 PM
Also, the popularity of conservatives in America mostly seems, to me, like a result of promises of lower taxes, the same kind of people who would vote for a party like you are presenting UKIP to be (extremely racist), and people who have been overly influenced by conservative media like Fox News. At least where I live to say that is a person is a socialist is basically swearing, and constantly people casually dissing the left.
Lowering taxation is a policy that can be viewed as something attractive to all classes, but it actually only benefits the ones that have no reliance on public services at all. After all, the point of taxation is that it creates the budget which the government then uses to serve/protect its people and maintain order and the rule of law. The rich have no need of such protection - their money already protects them from most of that. Unfortunately, the less educated among us will not notice this, and only pay attention to the idea of lowered costs on their bottom line, without realising that the function of taxation is greatly to their benefit on a wider scale.

How to put it... How else does a king get the rich nobles (to speak in feudal terms) to help the common man and do a good deed, except by taxation? On the surface they pay the king, but if the king spends it on fixing roads and building hospitals, fire stations, government bureaus, militaries - it's to the common man's benefit. The king has no need of most of that. He's rich like the rest of the people he taxes. It's a shame that the commoner can often only see that his bottom line expense seems to go up, although it's not really the commoner's fault. I'd place the blame on the nobles, who own all the town criers (media) who create a climate of fear of loss via taxation.

They're also fed ideas constantly by conservative media sources headed by billion dollar men, and those are a problem in the UK almost as much as the US from what my studies showed - but I don't think they have anything quite as biased and popular as Fox News. It's sad that socialism is demonised in the US to such a degree - it's far from a perfect political point of view, but it's also very far from an evil. I have no interest in it myself, only in green democracy, but it's still unfair that the left-wing of politics is ever so casually thrown aside as an idea. The great thing about politics is that all ideas have some level of merit, and every issue/decision surely deserves a full consideration of the entire spectrum to be fair.
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