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| People from other countries; foreigners, immigrants.. | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 10 2015, 03:25 PM (1,251 Views) | |
| WitchRolina | Apr 12 2015, 01:54 AM Post #16 |
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Missing the Unified Aesthetic
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To me, Immigrants and Foreigners are two entirely different things. Foreigners is simply people who live outside of your country. However, Immigrants are a hot-button political issue that everyone likes to b**** and whine about. I will address them separately. Foreigners for the most part I have no problem with. So long as they don't go full asshole and start bashing my home, we're good. After all, I don't slander where they live, so I don't wanna hear them attack my home. Immigrants come in two varieties - those who worked hard to get here and hold legal status, and those who took illegal means to get here. I have no problems with legal immigrants - I know and grew up with many of them. For crying out loud, I'm a Texas girl. You can't go anywhere without interacting with them. Many of them are some of the kindest and most hardworking people I've ever met - and no, not all of them are Hispanic. I've met and befriended many Pakistani, Korean, and Indian. I've hung out with people from Germany and England. Those who call me racist don't seem to understand that the immigrant population is widely varied, which leads me to believe that we Texans aren't the racists here. Illegals, however, cause problems. And no, I don't mean crime stuff - for all the hard work legal immigrants have put into getting to and living here, it's completely unfair that they get affected by it. Many of the biggest opponents of illegal immigrants I've met are their legal counterparts, and personally I tend to side with them. While my own country does have some rather outdated and overly bureaucratic policies in regards to immigration, that's hardly anything unique - not only do most other countries have the same laws and regulations, but the pointless bureaucracies also apply to pretty much every aspect of American life. Many people are screaming for open borders, but... Well, let me put it this way. From what I've seen, the biggest proponents of open borders are those whom share no borders at all. They're the ones that don't have to deal with the crime from other countries bleeding into their homes. They don't have to deal with the struggles of a large immigrant population having to deal with all the slander and unfair competition caused by those who didn't follow the rules. They see this as some great moral problem, but it hardly affects them at all. Another way to say it is this - I feel safe around legals. They're kind, good, and honest people. But I carry a Taser with me everywhere I go, because illegals are just as common here, and they're not. I've been approached many times by those with less than wholesome intentions, so I embrace my Texan heritage and arm myself. I don't want open borders. I want protected borders. I want proper and streamlined immigration laws. And I want the laws to be enforced. Edited by WitchRolina, Apr 12 2015, 01:56 AM.
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| Diem | Apr 12 2015, 07:36 AM Post #17 |
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Wizzard
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But if you streamlined border controls, wouldn't a lot of the 'illegals' become 'legals'? The only inherent difference between those two groups of people is how they moved from one country to another. There's certainly more crime in illegal immigrant populations but how much of that is cased by the fact that it's harder for them to get legitimate work? I think it's unfair to label every single illegal immigrant as not 'kind, good, and honest' based only on anecdotal evidence. Would you be ok with regulated borders but unrestricted immigration? Then there would be a system in place to manage immigrants but they would all be 'legal'. Would all those people that you dismiss as bad people suddenly become good in your eyes? What I'm getting at is that you're judging the character of two huge groups of people based on a single legal factor, ignoring the vast number of other variables at play for every person. Edited by Diem, Apr 12 2015, 07:36 AM.
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| Harly | Apr 12 2015, 07:26 PM Post #18 |
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#HarlyforHarly20Harly
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Foreigners are some of my favorite people. I actually just got back home from a conference for a youth exchange program I am participating in (I suppose I'll be a foreigner myself, in a couple months!), and I always love seeing all of the people there. They come from all over the place, whether it be Chile, Brazil, Taiwan, or quite a few other places, and it is always fascinating to learn about their countries' culture and way of life. Beyond that, all of the foreigners I have met have always been extraordinarily kind people, and I have no bad experiences with them. |
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"He walked down, for a long while avoiding looking at her as at the sun, but seeing her, as one does the sun, without looking." Awards! Certificate of Not Being A Loser Baronly Crest
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| cipher | Apr 12 2015, 07:44 PM Post #19 |
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Fancy Chicken
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Diem, it is not strictly about character once you factor in practicality and logistics. Illegals can put a strain on the local infrastructure/municipality because they are consuming the benefits of living in the area without paying the appropriate taxes associated with them. Also it is bad for them because they may be afraid to call police or get medical care, and they will be stuck at low paying jobs because most decent jobs require social security numbers and green cards or work visas. At least if there's a streamlined way to have them become legals, they will be accounted for. |
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| Diem | Apr 13 2015, 06:19 AM Post #20 |
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Wizzard
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Cipher, that's exactly what I mean. I was responding to Rolina saying that legal immigrants are good people and illegal immigrants aren't. It's way more complicated than that. |
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| cipher | Apr 14 2015, 10:18 PM Post #21 |
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Fancy Chicken
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I'm with you there then. On the other hand I do have to give legal immigrants the props for going through the process. I helped a friend of mine go through the process of becoming a citizen (just helping study for the knowledge based test) and even that portion looked arduous for someone not familiar with american history. Let alone the other legal paperwork. I won't judge illegals for not going through the process though. It's easy to tell someone "follow all the laws," but a lot of them are leaving horrible situations in their home country. They may not have the luxury of studying and figuring out the legal work of proper immigration. I might do the same in their shoes. |
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| Silva | Apr 15 2015, 12:18 AM Post #22 |
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Fiercer than the Dark
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I think that the feverish anger surrounding the US-Mexico border issue has unfortunately lead to a widespread belief in the US that somehow illegal and legal immigrants are different types of people from each other other than how much money and safety they have. They aren't. Most of these people are just people, and I'd venture to say that "cheats" on the system - people who are illegally migrating without a legitimate reason to seek asylum - are extremely rare. Yet they're spoken of as though they're the majority. Frankly, that assumption is nothing but prejudice based on anecdotes and poor education on the matter. It'd be very rare to risk your entire family and your life trying to cross a dangerous border (or a dangerous ocean) unless you had a real security reason to do so. It isn't about profiteering because very few would risk everything they have on the vague promise of profit in another country. Either, a) these people are lied to by their trafficker about how safe the journey is and somehow believe it (unlikely, who would risk their whole family on what a shady person is saying to them), or b) these people are trying to leave behind an even greater risk and have to take the chance. Most asylum seekers are totally legitimate and have a moral reason to break the ridiculous laws around border protection, which are, as I established before, based on old fears and prejudices and are a form of segregation. Whether the plight of asylum seekers is good for system infrastructure is pretty much irrelevant to me - it is the system that has failed to protect these people in their own countries, so why would you expect them to enter another system with total respect to it? Moral matters should come before legal matters in any humane system. If there is any conflict between morality and law at all, the law is wrong. Simple as that. I guess that's my Neutral Good alignment coming out, but I can't stand it when people uphold the law when it's got nothing to do with doing the right thing, meanwhile disrespecting higher laws with more selfless purposes, like human rights. |
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| Harly | Apr 15 2015, 01:06 AM Post #23 |
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#HarlyforHarly20Harly
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I'd also like to point out that I am going through the process of getting into another country for an extended period of time myself right now, and I can already say that it is a very difficult process, and one that requires a noticeable amount of money, even without even looking at becoming a citizen. If you are in dire poverty, it could be completely impossible for you to enter the country legally (at least, without the risk of you or your family starving), it likely involves extensive background checks, any sort of criminal record can make things incredibly difficult (even something as simple as shoplifting while in America will make it basically impossible to enter the country again, if you are charged for it), etc. The process is difficult to understand, costly, and takes a very long amount of time. For some, this very well could make legal entry into the country completely impossible, and there is likely a pressing reason why they would have to enter in the first place. I am sure some people cheat the system, but they are very much not the majority. |
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"He walked down, for a long while avoiding looking at her as at the sun, but seeing her, as one does the sun, without looking." Awards! Certificate of Not Being A Loser Baronly Crest
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7:25 PM Jul 11

